I read your article on GhanaWeb about the balance between community and individual rights. I respect your views and the attempt to portray the debate from a different angle than the ideologically religio ... read full comment
Dear Mr. Prempeh:
I read your article on GhanaWeb about the balance between community and individual rights. I respect your views and the attempt to portray the debate from a different angle than the ideologically religious one that prevails.
I believe your description of homosexuality in Africa, however, is deeply flawed in the following ways (I've cited your words at the end to which I take particular exception):
* your evidence when talking about "Africa" (55 countries roughly divided into four mega-regions, containing most of the world's languages and ethnic groups) is terribly ill-informed, I'm sorry to say. Your reference points are either Ghana's cultural history or other largely Christian countries cited (Burundi, South Africa, Ethiopia) and based on personal anecdotes. You seem unaware of the highly-respected roles homosexuals played in the royal courts of the Wolof of Senegal long before colonialism painted a negative image on this natural phenomenon found in every culture in the world, , and today in many Sahelian countries where same-sex intimate relations are commonplace and part of the cultural fabric. Not to mention widely-known and documented same-sex behavior in North Africa, which is always "under-the-radar" but widespread.
* you cited but glossed over a fundamental element in the debate between "Western" style of same-sex affection (homosexuality is a loaded term obviously, one the UN itself refused to use and replaces with MSM): that intimate relations in Africa are private. Yes, you put forward a compelling argument about "indooring" (loved the word!!) but failed to apply that point to the "West vs. Africa" debate. The real threat to African "culture" as seen by the anti-gay groups, is because "gay" people are open and "in your face" with their sexuality, which is unbecoming in most societies, even today despite exposure to Western mores. For example, further north from Ghana, you won't see adult men strolling outdoors in shorts -- that's for kids. Not the case in coastal Africa in general, with some exceptions (Ghana, perhaps). Go north and you will not see women in general showing much of their body -- ascribed to Islam but not accurately, since there is no "Islamic" dress code applied globally (remembering that the four countries with the highest percentage of Moslems do not speak Arabic), despite what ill-informed people may think. Nowhere in Africa (I've worked in 48 African countries and lived in two) does ANYONE speak openly or even with close friends, about their sexual lives, their "indooring." Yet that is precisely what is done in the West - even on TV !
This breakdown between the inner world and the outer, is the core of the debate over homosexuality, which is rarely recognized.
* I have been around Africans with same-sex attraction for over 45 years, since I first went to the continent in 1968. Same-sex behavior exists from either in a relatively open manner in some countries to a repressed hidden manner in others. Benin, an almost-neighbor of Ghana, has no law banning homosexuality, nor can the law in Mali be interpreted as banning homosexuality - to cite just two countries where it is not "rejected" as you imply by all of "Africa." There are many anthropological studies, if you want academic references, showing the prevalence of same sex behavior, with differing degrees perhaps, throughout the continent. Why then would you ignore this evidence and describe homosexuality in "Africa' in the terms below? What about the link between griots in Sahelian Africa and same-sex behavior? It is widely known and accepted (my emphasis -because you deny that "Africa' accepts the practice and scorns or shuns it --- with what evidence??????) that griots are often homosexuals -- but of course it is never openly discussed or shown (see bullet 2 above) - just as highly artistic people in the West tend towards same sex attraction. This is a known and factual phenomenon, for many reasons, even if not fully understood. In Burkina Faso, bordering Ghana, you haven't even cited the Mossi tradition of older men having sex with young men -- right next door!!! You ignore the entire subject of transgender rituals found in both Senegal and Niger -- although they are not reflective of any particular sexuality. And you don't mention that Kabaka Mwanga II of Uganda -- the best known uncompromising homosexual royal figure in African history.
In short, your article, although beginning in a refreshing way, and pulling the reader into thinking that you would represent the debate fairly, ends up justifying hate and exclusion of a particular minority for the "benefit" of the community. And along the way, devolves into making claims about African culture that are entirely baseless, as I've pointed out above.
>
Sincerely,
Andrew Carr
Says Who 9 years ago
Not an iota of truth in what you have said.
Not an iota of truth in what you have said.
C.Y. ANDY-K 9 years ago
A BIG THANK YOU Mr Carr, for you interjection. The few examples you gave completely knocked down the false premises of Mr Prempeh's argument, thereby rendering his conclusions invalid by the rules of logic.
Charles, no do ... read full comment
A BIG THANK YOU Mr Carr, for you interjection. The few examples you gave completely knocked down the false premises of Mr Prempeh's argument, thereby rendering his conclusions invalid by the rules of logic.
Charles, no doubt, just like many who argue like him, argue from a position of ignorance about African culture and practices. I was becoming more horrified as I read on and on! he also failed on the philosophical plain: even if gays and lesbians were stoned in Africa in the past, it doesn't follow that they should be stoned now too. In parts of Eastern Nigeria, twins used to be thrown into the evil forest but now, thanks to missionary efforts, twins are revered.
I'd need a full length article to deconstruct and debunk his claims in their entirety but I have too many pressing issues on the table to take on this too. So, this is going to be a brief one.
Charles and his ilk are oblivious to the fact that Ethiopia held the dubious record of supplying eunuchs - castrated slaves - for the longest period in history. Eunuchs who featured very much in the Arabian Tales and actually played very prominent roles throughout the Islamic World (ref.: Orlando Patterson's Slavery and Social Death). They were even a part of the Vatican choir (google to check, dear readers). They also served as sexual partners to men; not only servants in the harems of the Arabs. Just imagine what they did to the women even though they couldn't get an erection. Homosexuality was therefore not a practice which was considered heinous in the whole of Africa in the past as Charles would like readers to believe.
He also wrote:
"
Apostles and doctors of homosexualism have searched in vain to find instances where marriage relation was constructed between persons of the same sex in traditional African society."
Where did Charles get this info from? Anyway, I am no apostle of homosexualism but just and informed, enlightened person and seeker after the truth. My landlady in the present Ekiti State in Nigeria was married to a number of women! It is an accepted cultural practice there for rich childless/barren women marry other women and any child resulting from that marriage is regarded as the women's children. Of course, the women (secretly) had sex with men to get pregnant.
Males relatives impregnating wives of sterile brothers, cousins, etc. is also practised. That honour fell on my first landlord (a former army officer)
when a brother's wife threatened to leave him for his inability to make her pregnant.
Charles claimed that poverty enticed some to engage in homosexuality in schools. Could I ask if the seniors who allegedly enticed the ninos also do so 'cos of poverty? Does that discovery of his apply universally, where some very rich people are gays and lesbians?
Don't blame the West for this brouhaha. They didn't start it! They simply heard about another lynch mob about to pounce on defenceless citizens and their leaders had to react quickly before they begin to get a stream of would-be asylum seekers claiming to be refugees!
The Westerners changed their against attitudes and laws towards gays 'cos a number of reputable scientific findings have shown that predisposition towards gayness is natural, not only nurtured. That's why they are allowing sex change operations for even children now.
Said enuf.
Andy-K
Says Who 9 years ago
There has never been a widespread acceptance of this practice in Africa. Eunuchs were forcibly castrated for royal households in certain cultures to ensure they did not sire offspring with the women of those they serve. It wa ... read full comment
There has never been a widespread acceptance of this practice in Africa. Eunuchs were forcibly castrated for royal households in certain cultures to ensure they did not sire offspring with the women of those they serve. It was a barbaric practice to ensure certainty in the line of succession among the wealthy and monarchs. It is no indication of proclivity towards a gender bias.
There is also no known same gender marriages among women in Nigeria as you mention. The practice of barren women taking in other women whose children they consider and treat as their own is based on self preservation. This is to ensure they do not lead a lonely life when they get old. To this day some solve the problem by stealing children just like the unfortunate incident that happened to the lady at KATH. However the more widely accepted and legal route is adoption.
There is also no known practice of siring offspring with your brothers wife in Ghana and even if it happens it is no indication of same gender marriage.
Finally the practice you mentioned of killing twins was a cultural aberration spawned by a market in human sacrifice and body parts and propagated by traditional religious beliefs. That is unlikely to happen today thanks to education.
None of the arguments that you have advanced supports the same gender proclivity argument. As I said, there is nothing that can be advanced for it. You cannot advance an argument for an aberration.
Neurology and Psychology has proven that in cases of an physiological aberration which creates an offset pathological pattern, one of the best ways of realigning the aberration is through shock treatment. That is why in spite of the fact that kleptomania is one such aberration, society and the courts treats the physical manifestations as theft and commits the individual to jail or a treatment facility for realignment.
For people who have no such inclinations the practice is a shock to the system when it is on a belligerent display . No one campaigns to celebrate being heterosexual, male of female so why campaign to celebrate an alternate sexuality.
Be a man if you are a man or a woman as the case may be. Everyone is either male or female and that is how everybody wants it. I am not interested in whether you like ham sandwiches (which I hate) as long as it is not against the law.
C.Y. ANDY-K 9 years ago
Your response hasn't debunked my claims any bit.
Noboby said that there was widespread acceptance of homosexuality in Africa, sine the practice, btw, is very limited in scope anyway. All that is being said that it has exis ... read full comment
Your response hasn't debunked my claims any bit.
Noboby said that there was widespread acceptance of homosexuality in Africa, sine the practice, btw, is very limited in scope anyway. All that is being said that it has existed in Africa for time immemorial unlike what some are claiming and it was tolerated and even form part of the cultural tapestry and socio-econ prctices. True or false?
You can't just deny what I wrote about the practice of barren women marrying other women found in Ekiti and some parts of Nigeria, e.g., Obuhaba in Rivers State. I responded to a specific claim that such a thing is not found in Africa. Of course, they barren don't marry those women in order to have sex with them but who knows what happens later behind doors?
Because you don't know of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I ghave a true example and you're denying it. What about the old practice among some Ewes whereby the wife of junior brother who died is married off to a senior brother? Does it not negate your statement above?
Killing twins in Ibo-land wasn't motivated by a market in human parts in the past. That's not what the records say.
My arguments were in response to claims made by Charles to support his stance against gays; not arguments to support homosexuality. You got it wrong.
Andy-K
Says Who 9 years ago
Most or all the information put forward as emperical evidence in support of the practice of gender-warp practices are baseless.
Science proves that the emergence of such a trait is an aberration in genetic mutation, a vari ... read full comment
Most or all the information put forward as emperical evidence in support of the practice of gender-warp practices are baseless.
Science proves that the emergence of such a trait is an aberration in genetic mutation, a variant cause which can be classified as based on unknowned factors like kleptomania; the behavioural abnormality characterised by the pathological desire to steal, schizophrenia the mental anomaly characterized by extreme psychological tendencies.
All these are not normal as they impart a deviant lifestyle which negatively affects others or the sujects themselves.
This practice is largely negative and even when it was criminalized for centuries spawned the obscene and deviant undercurrent in paedophilia among the clergy and priests in certain churches.
Just look at all the harm visited on innocent young people as a result by persons operating under false pretences.
It is the failure to accept the condition as an aberration which is the problem. Aberrations do not have to be promoted.
Countries in have now quickly realised that wealthy tourists under ther the guise of holidaying preyed on the young and innocent and have now put in place rigid deterrents.
There is the hunt for new areas with rich pickings for this practice and Africa seems the obvious destination. As if years of abuse by priests is not enough we have this campaign to accept this facet of the practice which is now campaigning for the age of consent to be lowered so that boys can be legally be involved.
There are laws in Ghana which protects all people irrespective of their orientation. There is no need to create any new laws to force acceptance of the practice. The practice is fully accepted in many areas of the world now, so what needs to be done is to promote tourism to those areas that have embraced the practice and accept that those who do not like it also have a right not to be exposed to it. A lot of places do not like the practice and do not want to champion it. Ghana is one such place. A haven for those who do not like the practice.
Says Who 9 years ago
That is if you spot it
That is if you spot it
Osu Ashawo 9 years ago
So we prefer to keep it hidden in the closet as if it doesn't exist? Such hypocrisy!
So we prefer to keep it hidden in the closet as if it doesn't exist? Such hypocrisy!
MDT 9 years ago
Mr. Prempeh...I agree with you on the premise that the African culture perpetually forbids legalization of homosexuality.
Besides, homosexuality has true scientific bases. When the human genome project was completed, not a ... read full comment
Mr. Prempeh...I agree with you on the premise that the African culture perpetually forbids legalization of homosexuality.
Besides, homosexuality has true scientific bases. When the human genome project was completed, not a single gene could be found to support the claim that homosexuality was biological/genetic, like genes found are found the lefthandedness of some people.
Talk of democracy....which is majority government, the majority of Africans in every African country is kicking against that act.
Homosexuality has no place in African to be recognized.
MDT 9 years ago
In my earlier post, I wish to state that ......Homosexuality has no true scientific bases. Only falsified, fabricated and twisted studies.
In my earlier post, I wish to state that ......Homosexuality has no true scientific bases. Only falsified, fabricated and twisted studies.
Boo Yaa 9 years ago
TELL that Andrew Carr, the defender & master of HOMOS-that GHANA IS zero tollerance for HOMOS.NO-CHANCE, IF CAUGHT GET LYNCH-PERIOD.
TELL that Andrew Carr, the defender & master of HOMOS-that GHANA IS zero tollerance for HOMOS.NO-CHANCE, IF CAUGHT GET LYNCH-PERIOD.
Roy 9 years ago
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the c ... read full comment
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27. And likewise also men, leaving the natural use of the women, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Jesus says in Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8. And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Opoku-Agyemang Samuel 8 years ago
You're very objective and very precise. I have read a lot of articles. Pro's and con's on the subject of homosexuality. After reading your article .I can say that are very opened minded writer. Thanks for your research and p ... read full comment
You're very objective and very precise. I have read a lot of articles. Pro's and con's on the subject of homosexuality. After reading your article .I can say that are very opened minded writer. Thanks for your research and publication.
Dear Mr. Prempeh:
I read your article on GhanaWeb about the balance between community and individual rights. I respect your views and the attempt to portray the debate from a different angle than the ideologically religio ...
read full comment
Not an iota of truth in what you have said.
A BIG THANK YOU Mr Carr, for you interjection. The few examples you gave completely knocked down the false premises of Mr Prempeh's argument, thereby rendering his conclusions invalid by the rules of logic.
Charles, no do ...
read full comment
There has never been a widespread acceptance of this practice in Africa. Eunuchs were forcibly castrated for royal households in certain cultures to ensure they did not sire offspring with the women of those they serve. It wa ...
read full comment
Your response hasn't debunked my claims any bit.
Noboby said that there was widespread acceptance of homosexuality in Africa, sine the practice, btw, is very limited in scope anyway. All that is being said that it has exis ...
read full comment
Most or all the information put forward as emperical evidence in support of the practice of gender-warp practices are baseless.
Science proves that the emergence of such a trait is an aberration in genetic mutation, a vari ...
read full comment
That is if you spot it
So we prefer to keep it hidden in the closet as if it doesn't exist? Such hypocrisy!
Mr. Prempeh...I agree with you on the premise that the African culture perpetually forbids legalization of homosexuality.
Besides, homosexuality has true scientific bases. When the human genome project was completed, not a ...
read full comment
In my earlier post, I wish to state that ......Homosexuality has no true scientific bases. Only falsified, fabricated and twisted studies.
TELL that Andrew Carr, the defender & master of HOMOS-that GHANA IS zero tollerance for HOMOS.NO-CHANCE, IF CAUGHT GET LYNCH-PERIOD.
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the c ...
read full comment
You're very objective and very precise. I have read a lot of articles. Pro's and con's on the subject of homosexuality. After reading your article .I can say that are very opened minded writer. Thanks for your research and p ...
read full comment