Do We Need God In Order To Be Moral?

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Dave 11 years ago

Morals evolve within social societies, in much the same way that our building codes have also evolved.Decisions are made in regard to these matters, by more than one person,through discussion and dialog.

This helps to deli ...
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Morals evolve within social societies, in much the same way that our building codes have also evolved.Decisions are made in regard to these matters, by more than one person,through discussion and dialog.

This helps to deliver us with the "objective point of reference" that you have mentioned.

Groups of social beings, have not evolved to survive,and thrive, by living within groups where by every being is left to choose for themselves about everything.

Groups of social beings do not exist within a society built around "pitiless indifference".For starters, many of them wouldn't even have been able to have survived for so long, if they had.

What you seem to have overlooked, is that the trait "empathy" can also be of some very powerful evolutionary benefit

If morals evolved via God, then we might also have reason to expect to see that every group of social being would have adopted morals that were always exactly the same,right from the start.

We dont see that. Even within holy books we see evidence of how moral opinions do change, and thus do in fact evolve
Dave 11 years ago

Quote " And if no moral law exists then there is no basis to say something is good. If there is no such thing as good, then what really is meant by the word, evil? The word, evil, is meaningful only when contrasted with good, ...
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Quote " And if no moral law exists then there is no basis to say something is good. If there is no such thing as good, then what really is meant by the word, evil? The word, evil, is meaningful only when contrasted with good, for real, objective evil is the lack of goodness. "

An elephant,learns to make a stand alongside other elephant members within its own social group, while involved in a form solidarity,against an attack being made by a pack of lions.

If this helps the social group of elephant beings,to be able to survive.

Its? "good" for them

The "empathy trait",even helps aid the elephant (group of social being) to be able to survive,even when coming under attack by lions that have dangerous claws and teeth.
dennis awah 11 years ago

Mr Coleman you make a statement in the fourth paragraph of your article - "Christians take their morals from the Bible which asserts that God is good, loving and also All-powerful" but you do not consider that this same mor ...
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Mr Coleman you make a statement in the fourth paragraph of your article - "Christians take their morals from the Bible which asserts that God is good, loving and also All-powerful" but you do not consider that this same moral reference "the Bible" has many contentious moral teachings!!

for example Jesus (who christians claim is god but he doesnt seem to be able to make up his mind) supposedly made statements such as those in Matthew 10; 35-36 and Luke 14:26 that support hatred and animosity among family's. i have heard many churchmen try and tone down these controversial statements form their god but it is what it is. Mr Coleman do we take these statements as moral guides???? what about the strict endorsement of slavery in both old and new testaments. what about JC endorsement of brotherly hatred and snitching in Matthew 10:21.

to claim the bible is a true moral code is ignorant at best ad can only be done by refuting the godly statements made in the bible.

Furthermore the bible as a moral code has failed the test of time. The theocratic states of Europe have been shunned after more than 1000 years of slavery, subjugation, servitude, war, famine, plague etc and have been replaced by pagan moral codes that inspired Democracy, human rights etc . Women who are mere cattle in the bible (see jesus treatment of his mother ) now have laws protecting their rights and putting them on an equal stand with other humans not the dehumanizing dictates of the bible. Mr Coleman you must come again, enough of your bias, the bibe as a moral code has failed humanity miserably, slavery, war, reduced status of women etc are its hallmarks.
Asiwome 11 years ago

The problem is with the inaccurate reading and interpretation of scripture. Some say Jesus was handed over to the Roman authorities because he criticized the way scripture was being interpreted.

The problem is with the inaccurate reading and interpretation of scripture. Some say Jesus was handed over to the Roman authorities because he criticized the way scripture was being interpreted.
dennis awah 11 years ago

So why arent the scriptures made simple for all to understand rather than winding around a whole lot of allegorical nonsense. is it any surprise that there are over thirty English versions of the same bible??? each claiming t ...
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So why arent the scriptures made simple for all to understand rather than winding around a whole lot of allegorical nonsense. is it any surprise that there are over thirty English versions of the same bible??? each claiming to have a better translation from the original???? if the all powerful god of xtianity could not put a pen to paper while he was supposedly on earth as JC, how do we take such a god seriously? doesn't he know people have different languages and literacy abilities? if JC criticized the way scripture was interpreted how come he didn't do better???? 4 separate and contradictory story's of his life show even he to be a sham and a fraud.
Isaac 11 years ago

Dennis,

The scriptures are written in a way that it is expected we read it together with God. I do understand your points of the difficulties in understanding some parts of the scriptures. But Jesus came to sum up all the ...
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Dennis,

The scriptures are written in a way that it is expected we read it together with God. I do understand your points of the difficulties in understanding some parts of the scriptures. But Jesus came to sum up all the scriptures into Love. Love God and love your neighbour. Whatever you read in the Bible, with help of the Holy Spirit, you will come to these great laws. Hope this helps. Isaac
dennis awah 11 years ago

Isaac, you are getting yourself into further trouble and making your god sound pathetic!!1

Read the scriptures with god??? so why the many translations of the bible?????? why "King James Version" and then "New King James ...
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Isaac, you are getting yourself into further trouble and making your god sound pathetic!!1

Read the scriptures with god??? so why the many translations of the bible?????? why "King James Version" and then "New King James Version"???? Why was the bible even translated out of the original greek and hebrew??? if reading with god makes you understand the bible the bible would not need translation???? after all if christians claim speaking n tongues is a spiritual communication, then an illiterate able to read and understand the bible should be a very simple miracle to execute, dont you think?? in fact even the very literate hard core believer like yourself barely understands the bible and therefore always come up with excuses like yours.

Isaac, this does not explain why there are also 4 seperate and contradictory tales of JC as god. ANy student of the four "gospels" will admit that they contradict themselves extensively!. Is that also down to reading with God??? sorry Isaac but it doesnt make sense.

Finally Isaac you talk about jesus summing up all the scriptures into "love" but my quotations in my earlier comments - matthew 10:35-36 and luke 14:26 and matthew 10:21 are clearly calls towards hatred and contempt of ones family, what does god have to interpret further for me to believe these statements are about love??????
Isaac 11 years ago

Dennis,when we we talk about the most civilized nations in the World today, their foundations are laid by Christians principles. Those who fought against the ills of society were also Christians. Look at the nations where maj ...
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Dennis,when we we talk about the most civilized nations in the World today, their foundations are laid by Christians principles. Those who fought against the ills of society were also Christians. Look at the nations where majority of the people are Christians and you will confirm Christianity stand for good and freedom, not evil. The fact is, it is more difficult to believe there is God than not.
dennis awah 11 years ago

Isaac, your claim about the worlds most civilized nations having their foundations laid by Christianity is bogus. You did not give examples of which nations you are talking about - how about Japan!! It is extremely civilized, ...
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Isaac, your claim about the worlds most civilized nations having their foundations laid by Christianity is bogus. You did not give examples of which nations you are talking about - how about Japan!! It is extremely civilized, industrial and wealthy! What about Korea??? Also wealthy civilized and industrial!!! Your claim is bogus! Let me tell u why! The countries u claim to be "most civilized" because of Christian principles actually can claim civilization because of their rejection of Christian principles. An example is the fact that many wealthy, civilized nations today have massive financial institutions that encourage their citizens to not only save money but invest in stock exchanges, etc! Is this not contrary to Jesus own exhortations for his followers not to save or build anything on this earth??? Or are u suddenly going to contradict your deity by telling me he did not mean that????? Even America who u could claim is the most civilized nation on earth insist on seperating the church and state. Also modern.medicine which is an indicator of civilization and has significantly enhanced our life spans and improved our lives over the last 100 years has not advanced because of the biblical belief that all sicknesses are of the devil but because of the Greek pagan Hippocrates - all doctors swear a Hippocratical oath on graduating into the field not a Jesus oath. If Christian prinicples were the foundation of civilized nations those nations would have no hospitals or laboratories since prayer would be the primary source of healing. What about the laws of these supposed civilized christian nations??? Are they not based on pagan Roman laws rather than the savage and primitive Jewish laws of the bible? These same Christian civilized nations you claim have divorce laws that go beyond the limits of what Jesus claimed in the bible (adultery)??? So Isaac don't be dishonest and claim everything civilized is christian! Christianity is a primitive outdated religious belief.
Asiwome 11 years ago

Jesus has said no one is good except God, so only God can institute good mores. Man on the other hand, does whatever the flesh desires and defines his actions as the good.

Jesus has said no one is good except God, so only God can institute good mores. Man on the other hand, does whatever the flesh desires and defines his actions as the good.

??? 11 years ago

Knowingly lying to dupe gullible peoples is a capital offense, which also an evil act is. That is what you, Mr. Coleman, you are proclaiming here, just interweaving others knowledge to fit in your God delusional insanity. You ...
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Knowingly lying to dupe gullible peoples is a capital offense, which also an evil act is. That is what you, Mr. Coleman, you are proclaiming here, just interweaving others knowledge to fit in your God delusional insanity. You bring forward the argument with the term "LOGIC" to apply to God. This is a lie.

Be careful with the baby stigmatisation, then babies are in their natural-helpless-evolutionary-behaviorism-demands, naturally acting for their needs. With your statement about babies behaviorism you are promoting maltreatment against babies and childrens and damaging their natural rights. The illogicalness of your God can be read in your own illogical twisted moral argumentation.
Isaac 11 years ago

These is the most profund article ever read on Ghanaweb. Well done to this writer

These is the most profund article ever read on Ghanaweb. Well done to this writer
Kokonsa 11 years ago

You clearly are very gullible and lack an analytical mind otherwise how you arrive at your conclusion of this article as 'profound ' actually confounds me and other like minded.
Attempt a response to a couple of the ...
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You clearly are very gullible and lack an analytical mind otherwise how you arrive at your conclusion of this article as 'profound ' actually confounds me and other like minded.
Attempt a response to a couple of the arguments put forward by dennis awah and dave up here.
coleto 11 years ago

"Further still, if you assume a moral law, you must necessarily posit a moral law Giver because if there is no moral law Giver then there is no moral law."
I can assume a moral law without a supernatural law giver. Different ...
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"Further still, if you assume a moral law, you must necessarily posit a moral law Giver because if there is no moral law Giver then there is no moral law."
I can assume a moral law without a supernatural law giver. Different societies have vastly different moral laws - so either there are different moral givers, that the moral law Giver is giving different morals to different people, or at least some of them are man-made. From there you have to prove that there is at least one supernatural Giver, and that your morality is one given from God. You are doing neither.
Uncle Oyibo 11 years ago

Morality as defined by the Moral Law (Ten Commandments-- Exodus 20) is the perfect character of God, which distinguishes him from all his creation as the source of right order in relationships. Genesis 1:1 assures us "In the ...
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Morality as defined by the Moral Law (Ten Commandments-- Exodus 20) is the perfect character of God, which distinguishes him from all his creation as the source of right order in relationships. Genesis 1:1 assures us "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." God created the world and its contents with a moral integrity that reflected his divine nature. Nothing was amiss in the relational integrity of man to God-- Man to his wife, man to nature-- until sin entered planet earth and redefined morality by cultural ideologies and norms. The sad truth is that today's society sees nothing wrong with amoral religious organizations such as the eastern religions which amass large following because of its purported freedom it offers. Freedom from the bondage of religious restrictions are seen by the irreligious, and Bible illiterates as part of modernity. But there is a problem-- the insensitivity in transgressing God's Commandments is leading to a daily exponential increase in crime around the globe.
A favorite author of mine gives this practical and insightful commentary on morality. Observe:

TRUE REFINEMENT

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men. Titus 3:2

The essence of true politeness is consideration for others. The essential, enduring education is that which broadens the sympathies and encourages universal kindliness. That so-called culture which does not make a youth deferential toward his parents, appreciative of their excellences, forbearing toward their defects, and helpful to their necessities; which does not make him considerate and tender, generous and helpful toward the young, the old, and the unfortunate, and courteous toward all, is a failure.

Real refinement of thought and manner is better learned in the school of the divine Teacher than by any observance of set rules. His love pervading the heart gives to the character those refining touches that fashion it in the semblance of His own. This education imparts a heaven-born dignity and sense of propriety. It gives a sweetness of disposition and a gentleness of manner that can never be equaled by the superficial polish of fashionable society.

The Bible enjoins courtesy, and it presents many illustrations of the unselfish spirit, the gentle grace, the winsome temper, that characterize true politeness. These are but reflections of the character of Christ. All the real tenderness and courtesy in the world, even among those who do not acknowledge His name, is from Him. And He desires these characteristics to be perfectly reflected in His children. It is His purpose that in us men shall behold His beauty.

What rays of softness and beauty shone forth in the daily life of our Saviour! What sweetness flowed from His very presence! . . . Those with whom Christ dwells will be surrounded with a divine atmosphere. Their white robes of purity will be fragrant with perfume from the garden of the Lord.
From My Life Today - Page 196
dennis awah 11 years ago

Uncle oyibo dont be selective - when you quote form genesis i see that you are not being honorable.

1) according to genesis god forbids adam and eve to eat from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil! yet this same go ...
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Uncle oyibo dont be selective - when you quote form genesis i see that you are not being honorable.

1) according to genesis god forbids adam and eve to eat from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil! yet this same god does not protect the first couple from the "evil" you say entered the world by leaving his world accessible to the devil! Is this sound slike a hioghly immoral god - he forbids his creations access to the knowledge of good and evil but does not prevent the evil one himself from tempting them??? is it any surprise that they failed??? The story in genesis is merely about entrapment and if that should be the "perfect morality" of god then Unlce Oyibo you are confused. anyway the story of creation in the bible is false and totally contradicts the truths of history, nature and science. so its not a good start for your comment.
kwaku ba 11 years ago

Among the most stupid articles I ever read on this topic.

I was actually preparing my physics notes to go and teach tomorrow. The topic is the big bang. And as I was going through the equations I thought to myself, so wher ...
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Among the most stupid articles I ever read on this topic.

I was actually preparing my physics notes to go and teach tomorrow. The topic is the big bang. And as I was going through the equations I thought to myself, so where is a god in all this? How come if a god created the universe he or she could not simply give us the message, be we rather have to rely on centuries of research before we find the answer.

And then to the fact that the biblical account, or any religious account for that matter is not corroborated by the evidence in our reality.

And then I saw this article where it is claimed that humans cannot be moral without a god. yeah right. so we can prove this by going to any country where the majority do not practice any religion or believe in any god and see how immoral and horrible lives they are living. And compare to say Ghana where the majority practice religion or believe in a god as the default position.

OK lets see. So there will be no morality in Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Japan. There should be moral breakdown in China, Canada, and Germany. But Ghana, we should see milk and honey flowing as the result of practicing biblical morality. ha ha ha ha ha.

makes no sense.
Manny Anab 11 years ago

Evil exist because it's physical, you see evil and thats proof enough it exist. We dont see God and therefore he doesn't exist. Go to sick kids hospital and ask yourself what those kids have done to God to warrant such sickne ...
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Evil exist because it's physical, you see evil and thats proof enough it exist. We dont see God and therefore he doesn't exist. Go to sick kids hospital and ask yourself what those kids have done to God to warrant such sickness; And yet he loves them.Why will he visit such illness on them, what sin did they commit? God is a way of putting fear into the poor so that you can cheat them of the little they have. Religion is in the control bussiness. Once they make you affraid with their heaven and hell nonsense, then they can control you. Read the bible (God's words)and you understand how evil religion is.control

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Do We Need God In Order To Be Moral?

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